JF-17 Saudi Export

Royal Saudi Air Force emblem.

Recent reports of Saudi interest into a JF-17 purchase appear to be wide of the mark. Though such a sale is certainly not impossible (and there is strong pressure on Pakistan to secure an export order), it is likely improbable. 

The Saudi air force is currently retiring or has already retired a large number of aircraft as part of its modernisation efforts. The F-5E/F and Tornado ADV fleet have been retired or have been relegated to the training role, and more F-15s and Typhoons ordered in their place as the well funded RSAF can afford such high tech aircraft. Though the JF-17 was designed to replace aircraft such the F-5, of which over a hundred at one time flew in Saudi service, the purchase of advanced western aircraft points to efforts by the Saudis to make a wholesale improvement in their airpower by phasing out lightweight fighters. Even in the training role further Hawk trainers as LIFT and light strike aircraft could easily fill in the second line fighter requirement if there was one. Coupled with upgrades being made to existing F-15S and Tornado IDS strike aircraft, the chances of there being a role for the JF-17 to fill are reduced.

The purchase of advanced western weaponry also buys the Saudis a degree of influence as its multi-billion dollar deals have been instrumental in ensuring the profitability of western arms firms during periods of uncertainty. As was seen with the ending of the British investigations surrounding the Anglo-Saudi Al-Yamamah arms deal in 2006, Saudi influence can be substantial.

A possible JF-17 sale however, could eventuate if negotiations for further Typhoon aircraft for example are not fruitful. With 72 Typhoons on order the negotiations for a further batch of 72 are ongoing. However, the Saudis could at least explore the option of a JF-17 purchase if only to pressure the British into accepting more favourable terms. Considering the strategic logic the Saudis operate by in which they effectively buy influence a possible purchase may also rest on how they view the growing power of China. China has made some progress in penetrating the Saudi market with its commercial goods and has even built a public transit system in Mecca. China was also the country the Saudis turned to when it decided to purchase ballistic missiles in the 1980s. The Chinese could therefore pick up a sale as a vendor of last resort, or as a country that the Saudis believe is now important enough to view as a potentially strong influence in the region. This could be linked to the Saudi view of needing to contain Iran. Therefore purchasing the Sino-Pakistani FC-1/JF-17 could be part of such thinking. However, this is purely speculation and a Saudi purchase is, for the best part, unlikely.

The reports may be yet another example of Pakistani officials feeding such speculation to the local media, which has then reported them as fact. Unnamed US journal that has been quoted in recent reports aside, the likelihood remains slim. This is especially when considering past examples of large scale arms sales to Saudi Arabia. When Saudi Arabia was reportedly interested in purchasing the HIT Saad APC there was considerable speculation a sale would also include the Al-Khalid MBT. Though a Saad sale was a reasonable enough belief, the Al-Khalid sale was unrealistic as the Saudis have the ability to purchase better armoured and armed tanks than the Al-Khalid even in that class of medium MBT.

A Saudi JF-17 purchase therefore is most likely unrealistic.

Source: PakDef Military Consortium

The Great Persian, Arab Proxy War

29 - March - 2015

Here is why those analysts classifying the wars in the middle east as 'sectarian wars' need to rethink their position.

1: Persians and Arabs have hated each other since ancient times. One just needs to look at history to find the validity of that argument. Hating each other is part of their respective identities.

2: Sectarian element in this conflict is nothing more than a rallying cry as race based nationalism is no longer strong enough to have thousands of young indoctrinated Persian and Arab men to kill each other. By fueling sectarianism the Persians and Arabs make sure that their fire of proxy wars has the fuel of young brainwashed men it needs to burn till their objectives are achieved.

3: Both Arabs & Persians are fighting to become the regional top dogs as the United States moves its focus to China leaving a power vacuum behind which both the Persian Iran and Arab coalition lead by Saudi Arabia hope to fulfill and cement their role as the regional superpower and to be classified as a 'Medium Power' in the world power structure.

4: Persians seek dominion over Arabia for historic reasons, they see it in the same light they saw the Greeks during ancient times. A basic study of numerous Persian Greek wars and Arab Persian wars will put this point of view in its right context. In other words the Persians seek a 21st century version of the 'Parthia'.

5: Arabs on the other hand seek to establish their own 21st Century version of the 'Omayyad Empire'.

Now that its been specified that there is a clear 'conflict of interests' between the Persians and Arabs for geostrategic reasons, it should become clear why exactly these two great powers in the region are busy burning Syria, Iraq, Yemen and Libya in their imperial proxy wars. Egypt, Lebanon and Bahrain are other battlegrounds that have either failed to ignite or are yet to be activated.

The Persian power Iran, has funded, trained, armed and supported Jaish-al-Mahdi, Hizbullah, Shabiha, Huthis, Hamas and other proxies which it pays for through its petrodollars, in order to have 'strategic depth' in the entire Middle Eastern region. Iran is the only country in the region that has a 'foreign army' under IRGC. Arab coalition lead by Saudi Arabia has funded, trained, armed and supported its own proxies, namely FSA, Jaish-al-Fatah and regional state govts allied to Riyadh like President, Sisi, President Hadi etc.

Armed to the teeth and rich with vast oil wealth the Persians and Arabs will fight this conflict to the bitter end. Somewhere down the line people will realize that this conflict has absolutely nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with the historic hatred of Persians and Arabs, the hubris to dominate the region for serving their own geostrategic interests. Islam preaches peace,and brotherhood among Muslims of all schools of thought, however the Persians and Arabs are now bent on using Islam as a tool to fulfill their agendas through a brutal, deadly, vicious and devastating proxy war.

The results of this clash are becoming visible already, a great war is brewing which will engulf the whole region to the great benefit of those who sell weapons to these regional powers, the US, Russia and EU. This is a battle to the end and its real victor will be none other than Israel. May Allah (SWT) have mercy on us.

Source: Horus - Pakistan Defence

RIP Tornado ADVs

The Saudi Arabian ADV (Air Defence Variant) Tornados have all been stripped of usable parts, engines etc, and the fuselages are sitting on the ground with the undercarriage retracted, gathering dust at Tabuk. The ADV Tornados have all been replaced by the Typhoons KSA have contracted for.

 

 

 

Source: defence.pk

Pakistan plans to sell JF-17 Thunder combat jets to Saudi Arabia

Pakistan is in talks with Saudi Arabia to sell its JF-17 Thunder jets and be more involved in future arms deals. 

Pakistani Govt. Official said it is looking to sell JF-17 Thunder combat jets and trainer aircraft to Saudi Arabia, but rejected reports it was in talks with the oil-rich nation for nuclear cooperation. Saudi Crown Prince Salman bin Abdulaziz Al-Saud is scheduled to visit Pakistan during February 15-17. The visit is expected to focus on deeper security and defence cooperation between the two sides.

Foreign Office spokesperson Tasnim Aslam told a weekly news briefing that defence cooperation would figure in the Crown Prince’s interactions and that Pakistan was eyeing Saudi Arabia as a market for military gear. “Certainly, defence cooperation would figure in the talks. The army chief would be calling him separately,” she said.

Pakistan is interested in selling arms to Saudi Arabia, including the JF-17 Thunder jet co-developed with China, the Mushak trainer aircraft and other equipment, she added. Aslam rejected recent Western media reports suggesting that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are looking at nuclear cooperation, describing them as “baseless”. “There is a whispering campaign and at times there are reports based on leaks or background briefings…They are baseless. Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are not discussing nuclear cooperation,” she said.

This would be Crown Prince’s first visit to Pakistan after he became Defence Minister in 2011. Prince Salman, Aslam noted, was also the Deputy Prime Minister. During the visit, the Prince will hold talks with President Mamnoon Hussain and Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif on bilateral and global issues of mutual interest.

Saudi Arabia may buy JF-17 Thunder Light Fighters manufactured by Pakistan Aeronautical Complex

According to a report of "The Nation" newspaper of Pakistan, Royal Saudi Arabian Air force may buy PAC made JF-17 Thunder fighters. The news is here:

WASHINGTON - Saudi Arabia is reportedly considering purchasing the JF-17 Thunder fighter jet that was jointly produced by China and Pakistan. According to a report in World Tribune, the Saudi Arabian Defence Ministry and Royal Saudi Air Force are reviewing the JF-17 programme and considering becoming a partner in it. The report said that Pakistan had offered the JF-17 fighter to Saudi Arabia with technology transfer and co-production.

The offer apparently occurred when Saudi Arabian Deputy Defence Minister Prince Salman Bin Sultan visited Pakistan earlier this week. Prince Bin Sultan reportedly toured the JF-17 programme while in the country. The diplomat could not confirm the report, which World Tribune said was based on interviews with “officials,” without specifying any nationalities. World Tribune is a conservative US-based online newspaper focusing on exclusive and underreported international stories involving strategic affairs. 

If the report is accurate, this would represent a potential significant strategic shift from Saudi Arabia, which has traditionally relied on US and Western defence technology for its military needs. The Royal Saudi Air Force, for example, is largely organised around its massive fleet of Boeing F-15 Eagles, with a couple European fighters also thrown into the mix. As recently as September 2010, the US announced a $60 billion arms deal with Saudi Arabia, which included the sale of 84 new F-15s and upgrades on 70 of Saudi Arabia’s existing ones. It was the largest arms deal in US history. Pakistan, for its part, has long been trying to find countries to buy the JF-17 in order to reduce the per-unit cost the Pakistan Air Force pays for procuring the plane.

As The Diplomat reported back in October, the Pakistani Air Force expects to begin exporting the aircraft this year. A report that ran in multiple Pakistani newspapers at the time said: “The Pakistan Air Force has been assigned [a] target of exporting 5 to 7 JF-17 Thunder planes next year and discussions in this regard are under way with Sri Lanka, Kuwait, Qatar and other friendly countries.”

Yet China and Pakistan have long struggled to find customers for the JF-17, which China calls the FC-1. This hasn’t been for lack of trying, as the two countries have aggressively marketed the plane over the last few years. For example, a Flight Global article in 2010 said that China was in negotiations with the Democratic Republic of Congo, Nigeria, the Philippines, Sri Lanka, Sudan and Venezuela, while Pakistan was in talks with Turkey and Egypt. Later, there were reports that Argentina and China were in talks about a co-production deal for the FC-1, while Indonesian Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro confirmed Pakistan had offered his country the JF-17, stating it was superior to the US F-16.

Meanwhile, Pakistan and Indonesia have signed defence, trade and industry agreements with Saudi Arabia; arrangements that highlight strengthening defence partnerships between predominantly Muslim nations, Jane’s Defence Weekly said. A defence accord between Pakistan and Saudi Arabia was signed in Islamabad on January 20th, while a similar agreement between Indonesia and Saudi Arabia was signed in Jakarta two days later.

Saudi Deputy Defence Minister Visits Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra

Images taken during the Saudi Deputy Defence Minister Prince Salman Bin Sultan Bin Abdulaziz Al-Saud Visits Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra. In this image Saudi Prince Salman Bin Sultan Bin Abdulaziz Al-Saud is being briefed during his visit.

First Saudi Typhoon Aircraft Rolled Out

The Roll Out Ceremony for the first two Typhoon aircraft constructed for the c was held at BAE Systems' Warton site yesterday.

The ceremony, which was attended by the Saudi Assistant Minister of Defence and Aviation, His Royal Highness Prince Khalid Bin Sultan bin Abdul Aziz Al Saud, representing the Saudi Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Defence and Aviation, His Royal Highness Crown Prince Sultan bin Abdul Aziz Al Saud, and the Minister for the Armed Forces, Mr Bill Rammell, representing the Secretary of State for Defence, included a fly past by one of the RSAF Typhoons.

This represents another significant stage in the progress of the Salam Project, which covers the supply of 72 Typhoon aircraft tothe Royal Saudi Air Force in accordance with the Understanding Document signed by both Governments.

The Minister for the Armed Forces, Bill Rammell, said:

"This ceremony is a very significant milestone for the Salam Project. The Royal Saudi Air Force is getting a fantastic aircraft. Typhoon is a world-class, multi-role aircraft and will provide the RSAF with the defence capability it needs to meet the defence challenges oftoday and for the foreseeable future.

"The industrial benefits of the Project are also substantial for both nations and will help to sustain several thousand, skilled jobs in the UK and Saudi Arabia over the next ten years."

Background Information

The Governments of Saudi Arabia and the UK signed a formal understanding in 1985 for the supply of Tornado IDS, Tornado ADV, Hawk and PC-9 aircraft, together with associated support services, equipment, weapons, ammunition and electronic warfare systems; the aircraft have all since been delivered.

The two governments signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) in 1986 elaborating the arrangements put in place the previous year. This formalised the role of British Aerospace (BAe) (as it was called at the time) as the main contractorfor the whole programme, and established a UK Ministry of Defence (MOD) Project Office then within the Defence Export Services Organisation (DESO) to coordinate the activities of UK MOD in support of the programme, and to monitor the contracted activities of BAe. The two governments signed the "New Buy Tornado Agreement"for the supply of additional Tornado IDS aircraft in 1993.

On 21 December 2005 the then Secretary of State for Defence, Dr John Reid, signed an Understanding Document which was intended to establish a greater partnership in modernising the Saudi Arabian Armed Forces and develop close service-to-service contacts, especially through joint training and exercises. Under the terms of the document it was agreed that Typhoon aircraft would replace Tornado ADV aircraft and others currently in service withthe Royal Saudi Air Force. BAE Systems would also invest in local Saudi companies, develop an industrial technology plan, and provide suitable training for thousands of Saudi nationals providing through life support for key in-service equipments.

On 17 September 2007, the Governments of Saudi Arabia and the UK announced that agreement had been reached on the sale of 72 Typhoon aircraft. This new defence cooperation programme, which has been designated the Salam Project, will eventually be supported by substantial logistical and training packages. The final details of these support packages are still subject to further discussion between the Governments, but limited aircrew and technician training has already started inthe UK in preparation for the delivery of the first Typhoon aircraft to Saudi Arabia later this summer. The Roll-Out ceremony marks the beginning of the delivery stage of the Salam Project.

Role of UK MOD: The 1986 MOU requires the UK Government to ensure that all equipment, spares, training and technical work supplied by the main contractor (BAE Systems) are in accordance with Saudi requirements. This requirement will continue for the Salam Project. BAE Systems' performance in meeting requirements is monitored by the MoD's Director General Saudi Armed Forces Project (DGSAP) and his staff, based in London andSaudi Arabia.