Know About Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Kamra

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'JF-17 thunder fighter has capability to compete with any modern fighter jet' - Report Says

Minister for Defence Production Rana Tanveer said on Tuesday the country is producing state of the art competitive defence products.

“The indigenously built JF-17 thunder fighter has the capability to compete with any modern fighter jet, including the F-16,” the minister said, while addressing the media after inaugurating the modern display center of Defense Export Promotion Organisation.

“The world is showing great interest in purchase of this fighter jet because of its cost effectiveness,” Tanveer added, according to Radio Pakistan.

Further, the minister said Pakistan’s defence products are also being exported to European countries and the United States.

“Pakistan’s defence products have the ability to compete with those that are the best in the world,” Tanveer said.

Earlier, addressing the inaugural ceremony Tanveer said the government is encouraging ‘made in Pakistan’ products to realise the goal of economic development.

“Utilisation of latest technology is inevitable in keeping with the requirements of modern time,” he said.

IDEAS 2014: Nigeria 'Close To Signing Up' For JF-17

By this sell of "Thunders", it'll significantly help to carrying on the fighter program for the next advanced level. And some of other African-Latin American customers will actively think to grab some squadrons for their airforces also. Heres the main news:

The Nigerian Air Force (NAF) is close to finalising an order for the purchase of one or two squadrons of the JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft co-produced by Pakistan and China, a senior Pakistani Ministry of Defence official told IHS Jane's on 2 December.

Speaking at the International Defence Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS) 2014 in Karachi, the official said the NAF finalised its recommendation for the purchase of 25-40 JF-17s after NAF chief air marshal Adesola Nunayon Amosu visited Pakistan in October. AM Amosu's engagements in Pakistan included a visit to the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) at Kamra, north of Islamabad, where the JF-17 is manufactured.

So far, the PAC has produced 50 Block 1 JF-17s and began work on another 50 Block 2 variants in late 2013. Pakistan Air Force (PAF) officials have told IHS Jane's that a Block 3 variant is being planned. While the JF-17 has PAF capability plans, it has so far failed to find an export customer.

COMMENT

PAF officials have described the JF-17 Block 3 as a fourth-generation-plus fighter, a term that is used to describe Western aircraft such as Lockheed Martin F-16 Block 60s, the Saab Gripen, Eurofighter Typhoon, and Dassault Rafale, among others.

Western officials have previously said that a first successful export of the JF-17 holds the key for the programme's long-term sustainment. Potential export customers mentioned as likely candidates for the JF-17 have included Egypt, Nigeria, Myanmar, and Venezuela.

Senior PAF officials have promoted the JF-17 as costing much less than comparable fighters produced by Western manufacturers. However, prospective customers are likely to consider established manufacturers ahead of PAC, which is a relative newcomer to the international market.

Insight into JF-17 Thunder Block-II.

Pakistan Navy Plans To Buy 30 JF-17 Thunder Block-II

A rumor spreads through defence.pk forum couple of a years ago. But still there's nothing loud to confirm by the appropriate authority. However, it could be very possible because of the higher threat assessment for navy. Till today, if Pakistan Navy needs air support they must call air force. But considering the situation and multi-front scenario they could think of an fighter arm of Pakistan Navy Air Arms.

Due some speculation and information from highly valued sources of the forum it can be assumed that really navy going to establish their Naval Fighter Regiment soon. If this happen still we need to wait to see the real.

 

Artists' Impression of Block-II JF-17 Thunder of PAF

JF-17 Thunder Block-II - An artist's impression

It Confirmed, Thunder Will Fly With Additional Two Tonnes of Hell!!

PAF's JF-17 Thunder Block-II has been tested and will be certified to carry 3000lbs of extra weight on its stores. It takes the JF-17 Block-II into the 5 tonne payload fighter aircraft category.

This is an exclusively sourced excerpt from the upcoming November issue of combataircrafts.net. Its not available yet to the public.

JF-17 Thunder Block-II - A Beast in Making

• SD-10A – Beyond Visual Range Air to Air Missile

• C-802AK – Multirole Attack Cruise Missile

• Ra’ad – Stealth Stand off Cruise Missile (Nuclear Capable)

• MAR-1 – Anti Radiation Missile

• CM-400AKG – Hypersonic Carrier Killer

• CBU-100 – Anti Armor Cluster Bombs

• GBU-10/12 – LT-2 – Laser Guided Smart Munitions

• LS-6 – GPS Guided Direct Attack Munitions.

• Hafr-4 – Anti Runway Bomb

• Hafr-2 – Electro Optical Guided Glide Bomb

• LS-Series – Satellite Guided Glide Munitions
  
• Takbir Satellite Guided Stand off Munition

Participation of JF-17 Thunders at Turkey Airshow, 2011

A bunch of HD photos of JF-17 Thunders participated at Turkey Airshow, 2011:

First Block 2 JF-17s Under Construction in Pakistan

Production of the first two of 50 Block 2 JF-17s on order by the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is now well under way at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Kamra, with the first expected to fly by the end of the year.

The Block 2 JF-17 has several capability increases over the Block 1s, but the main boost to the PAF as well as to export potential is the installation of an air-to-air refuelling system. One aircraft has been fitted with a refuelling probe, which protrudes from the right side of the fuselage just behind the cockpit, sitting forward of the pilot's position. It is being used for flight trials.

However, this modification will not appear in Block 2 aircraft until midway through the production at the Aircraft Manufacturing Factory (AMF), probably in early 2016, PAF officials said. Coupled with software enhancements, other new features include an upgrade to the avionics system that works around China's Nanjing KLJ-7 radar.

Production of the first two of 50 Block 2 JF-17s on order by the Pakistan Air Force is now well under way at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Kamra. Source: Alan Warnes 

As a result, the Block 2s can add the Chinese-designed C-802 anti-ship missile and SD-10A beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile to the Block 1s' existing armoury, which includes Mk 82/84 dumb bombs and the PL-5-EII short-range air-to-air missile. All the Block 1s will eventually be upgraded with the Block 2 improvements. 

 

A detail of the refuelling probe on one of the first two Block 2 JF-17s. (Alan Warnes)

 

With an urgent need to export JF-17s, a two-seater will be built in the Block 2 time frame. The PAF had always said that a two-seater is not urgent, but Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt now admits that a dual seater is a necessity. "We realise that it is required, because the air forces interested in buying JF-17 want one," he said.

PAF pilots currently converting to JF-17 are accumulating around 25 hours on a JF-17 simulator operational at Kamra, where one of the two operational squadrons is based. Nearly all the Block 1s have now been delivered to the PAF, which has a current requirement for 150 to replace the ageing F-7P and Mirage III/Vs. 

 

Source: www.janes.com

JF-17s Block 2 Under Construction In Pakistan

Production of the first two of 50 JF-17's Block 2 on order by the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is now well under way at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Kamra, with the first expected to fly by the end of the year.

JF-17 Block 2 Cockpit & Refueling Probe

The Block 2 JF-17 has several capability increases over the Block 1s, but the main boost to the PAF as well as to export potential is the installation of an air-to-air refuelling system. One aircraft has been fitted with a refuelling probe, which protrudes from the right side of the fuselage just behind the cockpit, sitting forward of the pilot's position. It is being used for flight trials.

However, this modification will not appear in Block 2 aircraft until midway through the production at the Aircraft Manufacturing Factory (AMF), probably in early 2016, PAF officials said. Coupled with software enhancements, other new features include an upgrade to the avionics system that works around China's Nanjing KLJ-7 radar.

JF-17 Thunder Aerial Refueling Kit

As a result, the Block 2s can add the Chinese-designed C-802 anti-ship missile and SD-10A beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile to the Block 1s' existing armoury, which includes Mk 82/84 dumb bombs and the PL-5-EII short-range air-to-air missile. All the Block 1s will eventually be upgraded with the Block 2 improvements.

With an urgent need to export JF-17s, a two-seater will be built in the Block 2 time frame. The PAF had always said that a two-seater is not urgent, but Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt now admits that a dual seater is a necessity. "We realise that it is required, because the air forces interested in buying JF-17 want one," he said.

PAF pilots currently converting to JF-17 are accumulating around 25 hours on a JF-17 simulator operational at Kamra, where one of the two operational squadrons is based. Nearly all the Block 1s have now been delivered to the PAF, which has a current requirement for 150 to replace the ageing F-7P and Mirage III/Vs.

China To Induct JF-17 Thunder into Its Air Force: President Mamnoon Hussain

President Mamnoon Hussain has described his visit to China as successful. Pakistani President said that Chinese side has agreed to induct FC-1/JF-17 Thunder fighter jets into its Air Force. This will help in bringing the per unit price down and increase the chances of garbing export orders. He also added that China will continue to cooperate on the JF-17 project.

China has also agreed to extend its cooperation in fighter against terrorism and will supply Pakistan army with helicopters. China and Pakistan will also soon finalize contract to jointly develop and produce submarines for Pakistan Navy. 

China will also install two 1100 MW nuclear power plants in Karachi and another three will be installed in other parts of the country.

Could propaganda make "Thunders" invalid during war?

JF-17 Thunder variant may be popular among developing nations

The JF-17 Block-II — the upgrade version of the JF-17 Thunder or Xiaolong fighter jet co-designed by China and Pakistan — is likely to be a very popular combat aircraft among developing nations, according to the Diplomat, an online current affairs magazine based in Tokyo.

Quoting reports from the Washington-based online portals Defense News and Defense Talk, the Diplomat stated that Pakistan has recently launched production of the JF-17 Block-II at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex near Islamabad. The country expects to begin exporting the aircraft next year, the report said, adding the newer JF-17 Block-II variants possesses more advanced weapons systems and avionics. 

"We've been getting inquiries and expressions of interest for the JF-17 Thunder from many countries in the Middle East, Africa and from as far as South America," said Air Marshal Sohail Gul Khan of the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex.

A report published in 2010 indicated that the potential buyers of JF-17 includes Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, Congo, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Nigeria, the Philippines, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Turkey, Venezuela and Zimbabwe.

The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex has already produced 50 older and less-advanced JF-17 Block-1 fighters for the nation's air force. This low-cost multirole single engine fighter was originally co-designed by China's Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group and the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex. In China, the aircraft is called the FC-1 Xiaolong or Fierce Dragon.

Earlier last week, Pakistani prime minister, Nawaz Sharif, visited the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex to officially inaugurate the beginning of the Block-II production. The event was also attended by Chinese delegates and the Pakistan air force, the Diplomat said.

Saudi Arabia may buy JF-17 Thunder Light Fighters manufactured by Pakistan Aeronautical Complex

According to a report of "The Nation" newspaper of Pakistan, Royal Saudi Arabian Air force may buy PAC made JF-17 Thunder fighters. The news is here:

WASHINGTON - Saudi Arabia is reportedly considering purchasing the JF-17 Thunder fighter jet that was jointly produced by China and Pakistan. According to a report in World Tribune, the Saudi Arabian Defence Ministry and Royal Saudi Air Force are reviewing the JF-17 programme and considering becoming a partner in it. The report said that Pakistan had offered the JF-17 fighter to Saudi Arabia with technology transfer and co-production.

The offer apparently occurred when Saudi Arabian Deputy Defence Minister Prince Salman Bin Sultan visited Pakistan earlier this week. Prince Bin Sultan reportedly toured the JF-17 programme while in the country. The diplomat could not confirm the report, which World Tribune said was based on interviews with “officials,” without specifying any nationalities. World Tribune is a conservative US-based online newspaper focusing on exclusive and underreported international stories involving strategic affairs. 

If the report is accurate, this would represent a potential significant strategic shift from Saudi Arabia, which has traditionally relied on US and Western defence technology for its military needs. The Royal Saudi Air Force, for example, is largely organised around its massive fleet of Boeing F-15 Eagles, with a couple European fighters also thrown into the mix. As recently as September 2010, the US announced a $60 billion arms deal with Saudi Arabia, which included the sale of 84 new F-15s and upgrades on 70 of Saudi Arabia’s existing ones. It was the largest arms deal in US history. Pakistan, for its part, has long been trying to find countries to buy the JF-17 in order to reduce the per-unit cost the Pakistan Air Force pays for procuring the plane.

As The Diplomat reported back in October, the Pakistani Air Force expects to begin exporting the aircraft this year. A report that ran in multiple Pakistani newspapers at the time said: “The Pakistan Air Force has been assigned [a] target of exporting 5 to 7 JF-17 Thunder planes next year and discussions in this regard are under way with Sri Lanka, Kuwait, Qatar and other friendly countries.”

Yet China and Pakistan have long struggled to find customers for the JF-17, which China calls the FC-1. This hasn’t been for lack of trying, as the two countries have aggressively marketed the plane over the last few years. For example, a Flight Global article in 2010 said that China was in negotiations with the Democratic Republic of Congo, Nigeria, the Philippines, Sri Lanka, Sudan and Venezuela, while Pakistan was in talks with Turkey and Egypt. Later, there were reports that Argentina and China were in talks about a co-production deal for the FC-1, while Indonesian Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro confirmed Pakistan had offered his country the JF-17, stating it was superior to the US F-16.

Meanwhile, Pakistan and Indonesia have signed defence, trade and industry agreements with Saudi Arabia; arrangements that highlight strengthening defence partnerships between predominantly Muslim nations, Jane’s Defence Weekly said. A defence accord between Pakistan and Saudi Arabia was signed in Islamabad on January 20th, while a similar agreement between Indonesia and Saudi Arabia was signed in Jakarta two days later.

Limited & Superficial Comparison of Air Assets of the PAF & IAF

This is a paper to provide a limited comparison of the JF-17 / FC-1 with the Su-30 MKI and to look at Sean O'Connor's analysis to see if in fact, it is a inferior plane that will not stand against the IAF. Sean is a USAF intelligence officer who does some analysis on the side as a hobby and can be found to frequent keypublishing forums as SOC.

 

 Here are some of the salients of SOC's analysis:

The FC-1 will be the primary aircraft for the PAF and the SU-30MKI will be the same for the IAF

This in my opinion is an oversimplification that really takes out the heart of any real analysis of assets. When all is said and done, Pakistan will have 250 FC-1s, Yes, BUT (and there is a big but):

• Only the first 50 will have the basic configuration, later blocks will be significantly more advanced.
• Even the first 50 will have a whole host of features, some of them SOC has underestimated. For instance, the radar can simultaneously engage 4 not 2 as SOC mentions. Also, detection range for something the size of an MKI are likely to be a good deal more than 75 kms. Further, data linking between the fighters and with the radar network and AEW assets means this is even greater, particularly as SOC admits, any such scenario would be over Pakistani territory.
• The PAF is likely to have a 500 fighter airforce and 250 is merely 50% of its air assets. Other assets are perhaps projected to include 100 J-10s and about a 100 more F-16s. While 100 J-10s in my estimate, it makes historical sense as the PAF has typically placed a first order and if they liked the performance, almost always ordered a second batch. You would be hard put to find an aircraft that the PAF liked that they did not order at least (over its lifetime) 100 units of (or wanted to, in the case of the F-16).
• If seems clear that the J-10 will be focused on countering the 230 odd MKI that India will eventually have. Various interviews indicate this. 100 J-10s reflect a good direct comparison to 230 MKI, given the over all exchange ratio between the larger IAF and smaller PAF. Further, in actual operational service this will actually be even better - the twin engined and maintenance intensive MKI, run by less qualified Indian technicians will generate markedly lower sortie rates than PAF's WS-10A fitted J-10s. This is not bias, but a fact based on the Indian maintenance record.

PAC JF-17 Thunder

Superiority of the MKI's PESA radar, with a detection range of 160 Km

• AEW&C assets will also negate any advantages the MKI has over any potential encounter with the FC-1 / JF-17. When both sides have this, it levels the playing field for the FC-1 / JF-17
• SOC admits later in his comments section that in fact, detection range of the Bars is (according to Janes, for a 2m squared target), 80-100 km head on. About half what was first estimated, and that assuming a 2m squared target. More probable would be a calculation for 1 meter squared target, and that is being generous, given that the JF-17 is smaller than the F-16, and hides its blades AND has RAM coating.
• Meanwhile, SOC sticks with 75km as the detection range of the JF-17, for a "fighter sized target". Clearly, for the MKI, specially loaded out for offensive operations, this will be way bigger. Again, assuming that what was originally MY estimate of the detection range is in fact accurate (I actually never said 75 kms but > 75 kms, implying a minimum of, rather than a typical range. Further, given revelation of info on the KLJ-7's surpising modernity and the increased radome size on the JF-17, the point becomes even less arguable).
• Later blocks of the JF-17 are likely to have an AESA radar

The Bars radar has Jet Engine Modulation (JEM) technology, allowing for a target to be identified at range by simply analyzing the radar returns from the target's engine compressor face.

• Point is moot when its clear that the FC-1 / JF-17 does not expose its blades AND uses RAM coating, as has been discussed in interviews with officials.

There is also the passive engagement option for the MKI, something else speculated for future FC-1 blocks.

• One must understand the nature of passive engagements, very useful in less sensor rich environments. Its like putting your torch light off in a dark room. However, of limited importance in a well lit room (sensor-rich environment), one that is likely to be the case given the sheer number of radars, AEW assets and fighters on air in the Indo-Pak scenario. Lets not forget its a lot harder to hide, being the size of an elephant.

 

Some other issues:

• The PAF is actively acquiring an aerial refueling capability. Loitering is significantly lengthened for the FC-1 / JF-17 with aerial refueling.
• Later blocks are likely to be significantly more advanced.
• The Pakfa and the J-13 are not as far away as some people imagine.
• Pakistani J-10s will be a step up from the present J-10s and would easily act as force multipliers.
• Indian MRCA is also to be very seriously considered and countered, so are the present fleet of M-2000s and MiG-29s.
• Many IAF airbases are within easy range of Pakistani cruise missiles. Remember that the best place to destroy an enemy air force is on the ground..

Ultimately, success in the air will be determined by not only system effectiveness and capability, but by pilot skill, and the parameters of the engagement. That being said, it doesn't help to voluntarily go into a fight with one hand already tied behind your back, does it?

• As with the above analysis, it seems clear that nobody is going to a fight with their hands tied behind their back, at least not to me.
• It also does not help going into a football match with half the number the other team has.
• It also does not help if you never build an industrial base, and are forever tied to importing something vital like a fighter plane from abroad. And being dependent on a backstabbing "ally" that will make you pay for every purchase in blood.

Some other thoughts:

Building the right mix is important. Otherwise one ends up with spending billions of dollars on "some fighter" that is a technological miracle but can only afford - even after being the world's super power - less than 200 of them. Yes, the PAF could have afforded perhaps, 250 J-10s and had 100 F-16s and maintained a 350 plane fighter force against a foe having approximately twice that number. However, numbers do count, as has been observed in virtually every major sustained air war thus far, and the ability to take punishment and continue operating after the typical 2 weeks becomes a major issue, specially in a grand-and-classic scenario like the Pakistan - India duo. This is particularly true, now, given the better coordination, control and the rich sensor environment. All of which allow larger formations to engage on both sides. Imagine titanic clashes to take out major enemy air assets such as AWACS, and massive formations to protect the same.
It must be noted that when I say that the J-10s will be earmarked to counter the MKI, it does not mean that the FC-1 cannot handle the MKI. It is an unlikely scenario that in combat, the FC-1 will shy away from the MKI. However, aircombat exercises in China have shown that the J-10 is ideal at close combat against the MKI. Rather than the argument that the JF-17 is an inferior plane, its really quite a different matter. It is hoped that the J-10s, acting as force multipliers. As in the army, you have the regulars and then you have the elites, it does not mean that your regulars are useless inferior cr@p, nor that you build an army of elites only. Numbers surely count, and its always a general's art in knowing the right balance, knowing how valuable each asset is, and employing them optimally.
The best part of SOC's analysis is the consideration of long range SAMs, these might make things a bit more interesting, particularly for the IAF. This will be particularly true if they are well layered and linked to the overall airspace picture. However, present long range SAMs seem prohibitively expensive and this inevitably means something else might need to be left out.
Continuation of the Debate:

The range for the present Chinese radar is very likely to be more than 100 kms; considering that the PAF chief was comparing with PAF F-16s. The PAF F-16s underwent OCU which increased their range and made it close to MLU (see this)
"The Pakistan Air Force currently has the Block 15 F-16A/B model in operation, which has an upgraded APG-66 radar that brings it close to the MLU (Mid-life Update) radar technology. The main advantage is the ability to use the AIM-7 Sparrow and AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles if they were ever to be released to the PAF. Furthermore, the radar is capable of sorting out tight formations of aircraft and has a 15%-20% range increase over previous models. All the earlier F-16s were brought up to OCU standards and have received the Falcon UP structural modification package."
Consider this bit of information, and also that the APG-66 later modification values are against 1m^2 targets which will be further increased against a significantly greater RCS for the MKI.
Now consider statements made by the PAF Chief about the KLJ-7: is *much better* than their APGs (and these are the upgraded OCU APGs).
Secondly if you visit SOC's old post on FC-1 and see the exchange of comments, one poster pointed out that KLJ-7 beat the Grifo- S and PAF did not lowered their requirements (this includes a link that PAF did not lower it's requirement, and on that is by none other than Richard Fischer :D). SOC in fact commented that it is a very potent radar looking at some mentioned features.
Clearly, the KLJ-7 was chosen over this "very potent radar" and clearly the PAF Chief mentions that the KLJ-7 is "much better" than the present APGs.

One would also want to ask what is the detection range by JET modulation when intakes are hidden and treated with RAM. Why does one poster think it is more important and potent than detection by using returns from the airframe when clearly returns from airframe of a non-stealthy aircraft will be in abundance.
Another assertion made is that the MKI has phased array and JF-17 has Pulse doppler and MKI can avoid JF-17 lock by using doppler notch where as MKI will have no problems with locking on as it's radar is not PD.

This is what is common knowledge at various forums:

1)Doppler notch has been known since time ancient and tactics against Doppler notch were known by USAF even back in Vietnam Era.

2) According to one of the viper pilots at the F-16 forum, they have way more modes on their radars and just by switching to different mode of detection and maneuvering your aircraft so that there is no 90 degrees between both aircrafts this dopler notch could be taken care of.

3)Another aviator said "no modern AI radar is worth it's salt if it can't resist doppler notch"
All of the above should be on F-16 forums if you search "doppler notch"
Here is a link to the F-16.net dicussion regarding beaming/doppler notch tactic to break lock of a pulse doppler radar.
To me it seems some bloggers out there find it easy to feed garbage to folks thinking they know nothing. With a small Pakistani online community it becomes a recurring problem, yet it seems one would never try this on Chinese posters.

JF-17 Thunder Fighter Jets Fitted with Fixed In-Flight Refuelling (IFR) Probe

JF-17 Thunder Fighter Jets Fitted with Fixed In-Flight Refuelling (IFR) Probe which will allow it to refuel in air from IL-78MP Midas MRTT (Air-to-Air Refuelling / Transport Aircraft ) of Pakistan Air Force.

Pakistan To Produce JF-17 Thunder Block II Fighter Aircraft Till 2016

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) has launched the production of imroved JF-17 Thunder Block II fighter aircraft in a ceremony attended by the Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.

JF-17 Thunder Block II fighter jet will have built in air-to-air refuelling capability, new avionics, enhanced load weapons carrying capacity, enhanced data link and electronic warfare capabilities. PAC plans to produce JF-17 Block II till 2016 after which it will switch to the JF-17 Block III. JF-17 Thunder Block III fighter aircraft will have new powerfull engine and additional weapons.